Out From Under the Umbrella

playing in the rain

You Have Not Because You Ask Not

61 Comments

jailApparently 51 year-old April Lee Yates didn’t pray hard enough.  According to WBTW News she dined out in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina Sunday night expecting Jesus Christ to pick up the tab.  When he didn’t show up with the cash in hand she was carted off to jail because she hadn’t the money to pay.

I wonder how many times Jesus has paid a dinner check for her.  She certainly expected him to come through for her.  She didn’t even do a proper dine-and-dash.  She sat there for four hours waiting on him.

Seriously, you can’t make this stuff up.

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61 thoughts on “You Have Not Because You Ask Not

  1. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

    Guess not. Ask and you will receive no answer and possibly go to jail.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. According to the Department of Justice stats, over 60% of people in prison have mental illness. With all this information available, they send her to jail instead of a mental health facility for evaluation. Indeed, you can’t make this stuff up.

    Shear idiocracy.

    Liked by 1 person

    • One would think that a medical or mental health issue was at play here. I mean, there are medical issues that can cause a person to be temporarily delusional. Low blood sugar? High blood sugar? Previous head trauma?

      Then again, I guess this might be my cynical side showing up here, but I wonder how many times she’s gotten out of a restaurant bill using this by either someone feeling sorry for her and paying it or the restaurant just comping her a meal.

      Liked by 1 person

      • “there are medical issues that can cause a person to be temporarily delusional.”

        Exactly. Further traumatizing her will only exacerbate her condition if she has one. Seriously, I never once had the thought that she might be a con-artist.

        Liked by 2 people

        • That wasn’t my immediate thought, either. But I do know people like that.

          Not kidding, I had two ultra-religious co-workers(I’m pretty sure both were Church of God). Anyway, one of them needed a car but couldn’t afford to finance one. Overhearing her lamenting the fact that she couldn’t afford the payments the other co-worker told her – out loud in front of everyone – that she didn’t have enough faith. He quoted Matthew 7: 7-8 and told her that if she prayed and had enough faith that God would give her a car just like he had done for him.

          How did God give him a car, you might be wondering? Another co-worker, who happened to be quite a bit older and in bad health died and left his car t him. Yes, yes, dead co-worker did know all about gifted co-worker’s financial situation and that he needed a car. Dead co-worker had never been married and had no children so he left the car to him. God provides in mysterious and often morbid ways.

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          • Christianity has an abundance of con-artists, especially the hierarchy. But,, in my opinion, no one in their right mind would do this unless they had medical issues, and/or were homeless and needed a place to stay.

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          • I am certainly more inclined to think that there was some sort of medical or mental health issue going on here than that she was trying to run a con.

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    • Seems excessive to take someone to jail over $26 regardless of whether it was due to mental illness. If I had been there, I’d probably pay the bill for her rather than see her go to jail. It’s like we rejoice in throwing people in jail for the smallest of infractions.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Indeed, GC. I found another incident very similar to this that took place in Oklahoma last year. The women claimed she was legally married to Jesus Christ, but had no official wedding license. “Jesus would be back soon”, she said, according to KWSO, and “would be able to walk in and produce U.S. currency to pay for her bill.”

        Restaurant staff called police, who charged her with fraud and booked her into the Lawton City Jail.

        http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/christ-the-redeemer-oklahoma-woman-claims-jesus-will-pay-for-her-dinner-and-drinks/

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        • The thing is, the restaurant staff probably realized that there was a problem and not wanting to just comp the meal and send the person out on the street they called 911 who likely sent police because that’s what they always seem to do. They send the police in to assess the situation and the police decide whether or not to arrest or send a person for mental health eval. I will say this about it, though, in the state of Georgia if you call 911, unless the person is making threats of physical violence against themselves(threatening suicide) or someone else, they cannot be sent for mental health eval against their will. In other words, if the police questioned her and asked her to voluntarily submit to an evaluation and she refused their recourse would be to either pay the bill and release the person back onto the street or arrest them and get them off the street. While that may seem harsh for them to arrest a person in this situation they may actually be doing it for their own good and well being if no family members step forward to assist.

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          • Which is why the prison systems has become a mental heath facility, which does NOT rehabilitate but only makes people worse. If a person has any other physical ailment that doesn’t involve the organ called the brain, they are immediately sent to the hospital, no questions asked. But, if it has anything to do with the brain — send them to jail which will make them worse, then release them out on the streets.

            Brilliant.

            Liked by 1 person

          • But, really, what is the alternative? At what point do you think that it’s alright to hold someone in a mental health facility against their will? I don’t disagree with you about our prison systems, I just don’t know what the answer is when a person has committed a crime and refuses mental health screening.

            I honestly don’t think she’ll serve ‘hard time’ for this crime. Likely they held her overnight, as I said, possibly for her own good. If her mental health state did deteriorate they could then send her for a mandatory hold. As it stands, for petty crimes like this, she would have to go before a judge before she could be ordered to have an evaluation. It’s doubtful it will ever get that far.

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          • Doubtful, indeed. There are things called fMRI scans and Cat scans, blood tests, and neurologists and psychiatrists who are on duty or are on call in the ER in hospitals, and it’s more humane to send them to a hospital for evaluation than a jail. The brain isn’t any different than any other organ except when something goes wrong with it, it can impact behavior. If someone is in a restaurant for that long claiming that Jesus is going to pay her bill, and cause a disturbance, the person needs a medical evaluation first and foremost.

            In the United States, especially the South, there are now more than three times more seriously mentally ill persons in jails and prisons than in hospitals. Forty percent of individuals with serious mental illnesses have been in jail or prison at some time in their lives.

            I personally think it’s the Christian indoctrinated mentality we have here. “Bad” behavior is automatically caused by sin. They must be punished. We have an archaic system.

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      • I wonder if maybe it wasn’t her first offence. Perhaps they had just had enough of her pulling stuff like this.

        Also I notice in the news report that she had been asked by the restaurant to leave and wouldn’t, and was also causing a disturbance among the other patrons. So I don’t think they arrested her just for not paying, I think it was more that she was causing a public disturbance and the restaurant needed her removed.

        Liked by 3 people

  3. I mean, seriuosly? She really believed it?

    That story gets sadder the more you think about it.

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    • Indeed it does. Like Victoria said, they took her to jail instead of somewhere for psychiatric evaluation. Surely it had to be apparent that there was either a medical or mental health issue going on here.

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  4. I’m somewhat speechless. Although the flippant side of me wants to suggest that I doubt Jesus carries cash. Sort of like the queen.

    With regard to any mental health issues, both restaurant staff and police are merely doing their jobs. Restaurant staff: customer avoids payment —> call police. Police: person is allegedly committing crime —>throw in gaol. Neither restaurant staff nor front line police are paid to make mental health assessments.

    And, what’s the difference between that and US presidents and generals saying ‘God told me, God helped me,’ etc?

    Liked by 2 people

    • “And, what’s the difference between that and US presidents and generals saying ‘God told me, God helped me,’ etc?”

      I’m not sure there is much difference except that she literally sat there for four hours waiting for Jesus to show up in the flesh to pay her bill. Which is kind of a big difference when you consider that the others are either claiming that they were aided in a victory already won or simply got a fuzzy feeling when they prayed. There’s no indication they believe Jesus is going to show up or even did show up in person. The similarity lies in the fact that they all are expecting someone else to pick up the tab and clean up the mess.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. She should have just asked Jesus to make her a sandwich himself.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. “The call comes in from a high-rise complex on Third Avenue in mid-city Los Angeles: A woman is again throwing items from her ninth floor apartment balcony. On this day, it’s a large picture frame, its glass now shattered in the courtyard below.

    A special LAPD team joins patrol officers on the scene. In the hallway outside the apartment, Officer Dennis Nguyen meets with supervising Detective Jim Hoffman and tells him that the woman inside is acting “a bit erratic.”

    “She’s been standing up, sitting down, making furtive movements,” he tells Hoffman before heading back into the apartment.

    Rather than arrest the woman, Nguyen and his partner — a mental health clinician — talk with her in an attempt to calm her down. Eventually, their efforts pay off: the woman agrees to allow the pair to take her to a hospital, where she’s placed on a 72-hour psychiatric hold.

    The incident marks another successful intervention for the LAPD’s Mental Evaluation Unit, a nationally renowned operation that’s credited with defusing potentially explosive encounters with people in the midst of a mental health crisis. The unit’s work also results in the diversion of hundreds of people each year to treatment instead of jail.

    Comprised of teams that pair officers with mental health clinicians, the operation also seeks to help those whose mental illness causes them to cycle in and out of hospitals and jails. Its leaders say that program has saved the city and county millions of dollars and freed up thousands of hours of patrol time by taking over these often complex calls from street cops. ”

    http://www.scpr.org/news/2015/03/09/50245/police-and-the-mentally-ill-lapd-unit-praised-as-m/

    Liked by 1 person

    • “Rather than arrest the woman, Nguyen and his partner — a mental health clinician — talk with her in an attempt to calm her down. Eventually, their efforts pay off: the woman agrees to allow the pair to take her to a hospital, where she’s placed on a 72-hour psychiatric hold.”

      First of all, I think this is a little misleading. Not necessarily intentional, but if you know nothing about how this all works you get the impression that this is an easy feat. It’s not.

      The misleading part of this is that, while the woman agrees to be taken to the hospital – likely in her mind a better choice than jail – that 72-hour psychiatric hold is not a voluntary hold. If she was throwing things from the balcony window that would hurt someone they could have called an ambulance and had her held involuntarily anyway. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the Baker Act, but in order for a 72-hour psychiatric hold to be placed the person must meet certain criteria(i.e. either committing violence or threatening harm to themselves or others).

      Someone saying that Jesus is going to pay their tab doesn’t meet that criteria and if she refused an evaluation the police can’t force her to have one.

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      • …and the beat goes on and one and on.

        So, let’s locker her up and ruin her life. Let’s make damn sure she can’t find a job when she gets out or can’t get any government assistance because she now has a felony on her record.

        I understand the laws. I don’t understand the idiocracy.

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        • What felony? I’m not sure that not paying a $26 tab would be a felony. I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t rise to that level. I think that you missed a key point of what I’ve said. If the police could talk her into going for an evaluation, and we don’t know that they didn’t attempt to do that, without her threatening harm to herself or others they cannot force her to have an evaluation. The individual must agree to have treatment. Again, I ask you, at what point to we force people to have mental health evaluations? If the individual doesn’t comply what should the police do?

          Here in the state of George we don’t have the Baker Act but our mental health laws are quite similar. Recently, I had the misfortune of having to deal with this. We don’t need to kid ourselves about the stigma of mental illness, either, on the ability to get a job. The stigma of being Baker Acted can ruin your life, too.

          I’m not in any way whatsoever saying that things don’t need to change. The stigma around mental illness needs to dissipate. It’s an illness like any other. And yes, the justice system needs to be overhauled and changes need to be made. There has been a culmination of reactionary legislation from insurance, to healthcare, to crime, that has made our entire system a complex conglomeration of bureaucratic red tape.

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          • “What felony? I’m not sure that not paying a $26 tab would be a felony. I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t rise to that level.”

            We have the highest incarceration rate in the world — and it would be naive for us to think it couldn’t rise to that level. The article I posted about another women being arrested for the same thing was charged with a felony. The women in the article you posted was said to have been doing more than just sitting around waiting for her tab to be paid by JC.

            I did understand your point, Ruth. I was simply making another point. You can’t force the person to have a medical evauation, but you can force her to go to prison. Idiocracy.

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          • Again I’m simply asking you at what point police should force someone to have a mental health evaluation. Police do not force anyone to go to prison. That happens after [supposedly] due process; a hearing, a judge, a plea, a trial. During that entire process the person being charged with a crime has a choice to make. I completely understand that sometimes those are decisions that a person with mental illness is not equipped to make. That is where their council(even if it is court appointed) should step in on their behalf and negotiate treatment with the court.

            I’m not suggesting the system isn’t broken, but I’m not ready to disparage [all] police officers because these things happen. Most of the time they’re just doing their job. It has been my experience that police aren’t just out to make an arrest.

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          • “Again I’m simply asking you at what point police should force someone to have a mental health evaluation.”

            I posted the article on what they are doing to help police determine if a person should be jailed or be evaluated. No, it’s not perfect. Baby steps, Ruth. At least one state, one major city is making some progress, and that should be very encouraging. I applaud them.

            Liked by 1 person

          • I, too, applaud their efforts. But, again, it doesn’t sound like they forced the woman in that piece to go for an evaluation. It sounds as though they diffused the situation and were able to get her to agree to go.

            Baby steps, definitely. It’s so convoluted and complicated at this point it will be difficult to overhaul. That does not mean that it isn’t worth it nor that is shouldn’t or can’t be done.

            FWIW, I recently had a personal experience wherein 911 was called and the police handled it superbly, talking the person into allowing them to call an ambulance and voluntarily going to the ER rather than to jail. The person could have easily been arrested and charged with what was easily a felony and yet the police chose to do much what was described in the article you posted. But because they also mentioned possible self-harm they were held for 72 hours.

            It does happen, but if the person becomes belligerent and non-compliant sometimes the police have no choice but to make an arrest. What needs to desperately change is what comes after that.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Indeed. Police also need more training so that they don’t taser a person who’s having a seizure or a person having a stroke and can’t understand the officers and are assumed to be resisting arrest. This happens so often and it’s unnerving. I’m not blaming the police, per se, it’s the system that has trained them. I’m glad to see that there are police officers who are actually trained to by-pass their limbic system and assess the situation via their frontal lobes.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Police need better training. They are being taught in Police Academies to be afraid, that their life is on the line at every moment, and to be reactionary. They are not being taught to de-escalate situations so a lot of them approach every situation in a reactionary, defensive, fearful, position rather than the position of servant and protector.

            Liked by 1 person

          • “The article I posted about another women being arrested for the same thing was charged with a felony. “

            I’m not trying to be pedantic, here, but can you supply me with a link that says what the woman was convicted for? The article you posted only says she was charged with fraud. There are different degrees of fraud and usually unless it’s for a large sum of money it’s considered a misdemeanor. Also, I’d like to know the outcome of the situation. Being charged with a crime doesn’t equal being convicted of that crime. While I know that our prisons are full of non-violent “criminals” I also know that the reason they are in prison is usually because they are repeat offenders.

            I’m not defending our judicial system, but I am fairly familiar with how it works. I also know that first offenders get pleaded down to lesser charges in many cases.

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          • You are correct, the article says she was charged, but doesn’t give further detail. The arrest, alone, even if she’s wasn’t charged can still ruin her chances of finding a job in the future. Within 24 hours her arrest became public record, and anyone can get access to it. Even her mugshot will go online, along with her home address. As the Wall Street Journal notes, the consequences can last a lifetime.

            http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-arrest-records-rise-americans-find-consequences-can-last-a-lifetime-1408415402

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          • So much for being innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Why are arrests a matter of public record?

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          • I read the article you referenced here. It seems to me that inadequate record management is a significant problem. The police can’t *not* arrest people in some cases. If charges are dropped or, upon investigation, individuals are cleared of charges that should be part of the record. I know I’m preaching to the choir. I’m just thinking logically through the process and what could and should change.

            Liked by 1 person

  7. Continue from link:

    “Newly elected Los Angeles County Sheriff Jim McDonnell says he, too, is open to considering the LAPD program as model for his department, which has a spotty record when it comes to dealing with the mentally ill. Last month, McDonnell told the 21st Century Policing Task Force in Washington D.C. that in 2013, nearly 40 percent of all use of force incidents “involved individuals suffering from mental illness and in too many cases we arrest our way out of these encounters rather than diverting individuals to the community treatment and care they need.”

    —————————–

    This is so encouraging. I hope the women mentioned in the OP gets the necessary help she needs and deserves.

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    • Re your previous comment though. MRI scan, CAT scan, blood tests, neurologists and psychs on-call or even available?

      Humane yes. But what counts is $$$$$$$ And those scans and consultants = $$$$$$$$

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      • From the scpr.org link:

        “Comprised of teams that pair officers with mental health clinicians, the operation also seeks to help those whose mental illness causes them to cycle in and out of hospitals and jails. Its leaders say that program has saved the city and county millions of dollars and freed up thousands of hours of patrol time by taking over these often complex calls from street cops.”

        Incarceration is far more costly to tax payers than a 3 day psychiatric evaluation. Among the 40 states that participated in a survey, the cost of prisons was $39 billion in fiscal year 2010. In 2012 it cost New York City $167,731 to feed, house and guard each inmate last year.

        http://www.vera.org/pubs/special/price-prisons-what-incarceration-costs-taxpayers

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        • RE: Both of your comments

          “Its leaders say that program has saved the city and county millions of dollars and freed up thousands of hours of patrol time by taking over these often complex calls from street cops. ”

          To that point I will say a few things:

          1.) I am certain this does save the city and county millions of dollars, etc.

          2.) I am also certain that is because the city and county aren’t footing the bill for the fMRI’s, Cat Scans, blood tests, neurologists, etc.

          3.) Someone is footing the bill for those.

          4.) If the person in question has good insurance all that is still likely to bankrupt them.

          Now, I am all for paying taxes especially if my tax dollars are going to actually help people with mental health(or any health issues, for that matter). But we need not be short sighted enough not to see that, in the end, taxpayers will be footing the bill for those tests and evaluations being done. Taxpayers pay for indigent care and that is most likely what many of these cases will be. In the end, the program will cost as much, if not more, for taxpayers as policing.

          That being said, I’d much rather pay to truly make a difference and hopefully return these cases to a productive role in society rather than rotting away in a jail cell.

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          • ” we need not be short sighted enough not to see that, in the end, taxpayers will be footing the bill for those tests and evaluations being done.”

            I think that’s rather apparent.

            “That being said, I’d much rather pay to truly make a difference and hopefully return these cases to a productive role in society rather than rotting away in a jail cell.”

            Exactly.

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          • Valid points Ruth. I suspect I’d forgotten our different systems, and was considering our NHS health care, of which I know the cost after working in it. I’ve not worked in prison/policing.

            Of course every time we get a conservative government in the UK they threaten doing away with our health service to replace it with the US truly crappy insurance-based system. I so hope that never happens.

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  8. Pingback: You Have Not Because You Ask Not | Christians Anonymous

  9. Don’t laugh too soon, many of your non-believing fellow Americans place their faith in the magical Law of Attraction:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction

    Liked by 1 person

    • Sorry, Hariod. For some reason your comment got caught up in spam with the people trying to advertise the asics warehouse, diet information, and better search engine space. o_O

      I’m not sure I’d label that as non-believing. That sounds like a whole lotta woo to me.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. I think Jesus is broke.
    Was she serious or that is her jail break card?

    Liked by 1 person

    • I’m fairly sure she was serious and I’m also fairly sure she was having a mental health issue. Here’s the thing, though: millions of Christians say they are looking for Jesus’ imminent return – that he’s definitely, for sure, coming back. Millions of Christians claim they have personal experiences of God/Jesus that make them believe that they are real. Yet even the most staunch fundamentalist would likely say that this woman has a mental illness. Go figure.

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  11. And just a thought, I have heard many times here that if one can’t pay their bill, the restaurant doesn’t call the cops. They just give you work to do to cover the cost unless you become a nuisance. I haven’t seen it in practice though

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    • I’m not sure what kind of restaurant it was. Maybe some mom and pop places might do that here still but most restaurants are chains now and likely have policies against having non-employees “working” for insurance purposes.

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  12. Dear Ruth: I was wondering if you and the people commenting have had your mental health evaluations. Some time ago when I suggested a deconvert might need one I got all kinds of nasty replies. However, you all might not be as “sane” as you think you are. As for you Ruth, I pray for you almost every day. Of course that should not upset you as it has no possible effect. Love, waltsamp

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    • Dear Waltsamp: I have had a mental health evaluation, thanks for asking. No current mental illness was attributed to me.

      Are you suggesting that all deconverts need a mental health evaluation. Personally, I don’t think that all believers need one. Just because a person believes in God doesn’t make them mentally ill and I’ve chastised people here and elsewhere for suggesting that it does. It does a grave disservice to those who are actually mentally ill. People have different reasons for believing the things they do. I’m fully aware of that. Though I do think that a person who eats dinner out with no money expecting Jesus Christ to come pay their bill in the flesh might have a mental health issue. You are most certainly entitled to disagree.

      I’m not upset by that in the least. Though unanswered prayers are sometimes very discouraging, I appreciate the effort.

      Regards,
      Ruth

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    • Dear Waltsamp

      Most of us don’t sit in restaurants waiting for a fictitious deity to pay our bills.

      Hence the status of our mental health doesn’t usually become an Internet conversation.

      But, as one of Ruth’s commenters, no, I haven’t had an evaluation. Unlike Spike Milligan, I don’t have any proof that I am sane … whatever that is.

      Anyway, I’m not a deconvert, so maybe your sanity test doesn’t apply to me 🙂

      Roughseas

      Liked by 1 person

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