Out From Under the Umbrella

playing in the rain

We Have No Use for Them

35 Comments

I says to myself, “Self, don’t do it.  Just don’t do it.”

But then myself did it anyway.  How does that work?  How does it work that when your brain tells you one thing you up and do another?  My brain is a real asshole sometimes.

I don’t even post to facebook very much and I rarely get into discussions.  It leads to nowhere.  As my blog buddy Swarn Gill said in his fine post, Social Media, Fear, Change, and Love, “either I’m utterly awful and changing people’s mind, or social media just isn’t the place to do it.  Or maybe it’s both.  Either way the result is the same.  My sanity and well-being is more important, because being bombarded with the kind of people there are out there just drains me of my strength.”

Anyway, I’m sorry Michael Mock for littering up your facebook post with my brain assholery.

Michael posted this:

So, apparently the Bible was right: perfect fear casts out love. That *is* how that verse goes, isn’t it?
::is depressed::

To which I posted a comment:

Right, my knee-jerk reaction had been, “Not accept refugees?!? Are you kidding me? How unAmerican? What’s next internment camps for the refugees we have already accepted? Tracking devices for a particlar religous sect? What happened to freedom of religion? Shut down mosques? Are Christian churches next?” Having had time to absorb all the fear-based rhetoric has made me re-think accepting refugees here. The backlash they might face would only increase their anymosity and create a whole ‘nother set of problems. Oh, don’t get me wrong. I think we should accept them, but I don’t think a lot of Americans are prepared or even capable of doing that. ::is depressed, too::

And what followed was even more depressing.  I didn’t expect what I said to get a pass.  But I didn’t expect a response like this, either:

Why not just feed them there, where they live?

Which is where I should have left it.  But did I? Nooooooo.  Because….well…my brain. Did I mention my brain?

So I responded(bad move):

They aren’t running because they don’t have food. They’re running from attacks on every side. Let’s see; I can either eat a bomb or a sword. Seems like a good selection to choose from. Where they live? They have no home anymore. They are displaced. They don’t have an address.

It only devolved from there.  I should have seen when the respondent said this…

…Ultimately- these people need to handle their shit- the 75% of them that are young men need to return and fight for their homeland, as men are expected to do. The women and children may remain in refugee camps locally.

But we as a population have no use for them, no reason to bring them over here, and no imaginable benefit– hell, their fellow syrians who immigrated her years ago don’t want them (and i don’t blame them- most of the Syrians over here are Syrian Christians, with some VERY interesting stories about their peaceful neighbors.(emphasis mine)

…that he had no interest in being compassionate, nor accurate facts.

This went back and forth for way longer than it should have.  I should have just stopped, dead in my tracks, right there.  We have no use for them.  There is no imaginable benefit.

I did provide some facts, to which he provided some of his own skewed facts.  We were using the same website to get them.  But even when I showed him the nature in which they were skewed he replied with:

Did you not see the stats I just posted were also from the UN? *shrug* To be honest? It doesn’t matter one way or the other- this still doesn’t address the question of why we’re paying to fly people here instead of leaving them In Situ.

Meh….facts, schmacts.  Doesn’t matter.  Facts are stupid.  No facts will change my mind.

It did take him quite a while to invoke Jesus’ name:

These people need food, and shelter, and safety and comfort- frankly, even Jesus Christ doesn’t require us to do more than that. The Good Samaritan didn’t find the man on the side of a road a job in Samaria- he helped him, paid for his treatment, and they both went on in their lives.

What is this twisted interpretation of those scriptures?  Suddenly the Parable of the Good Samaritan is a maxim on foreign policy and an analogy for doing only what’s required.  Somehow I thought that parable meant exactly the opposite.

I left it here because that part of my brain that isn’t an asshole kicked in and told me to get out:

The whole point of resettlement, not only in America(we would be taking relatively few in comparison to the total number) but around the world, was to help these people become self suffient and get back on their feet. Teaching them to fish, so to speak. But since they are of no use to us, perhaps it is better just to throw them their daily fish. My concern is that we will be doing that forever which will be far more expensive than plane tickets. In a few years we’ll be bitching about paying their way, too. I guess we can agree to disagree.

His parting shot:

*shrug* to be honest? Jesus commands us to help our neighbors. I have no idea, as an intelligent person or as a Christian, why the hell this is our issue- any of it. From helping the Afghanis fight communism to invading Iraq to this. The middle east is like this, it always has been like this, it always will be like this. All we can do is kick the can down the road- but as the Euros have seen- bring them in, and they keep fighting their ancient wars in your cities.

Sigh…we have no use for them. I wish I could say that this has been taken out of context, but I really don’t think it has.  Ugly is out there and I know it full well.  Yet each time I encounter it I’m just as surprised and dismayed.

::is depressed::

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35 thoughts on “We Have No Use for Them

  1. Oh, Ruth. How ugly.

    And you are most certainly not ugly . . . sigh. . I agree. It IS depressing. 😦

    BUT you did try. That’s worth something. A whole lot of something.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Dear me Ruth. One can’t keep up with you and your FB annoyance.

    I’m still on, but basically for work. OK and rescue dogs.

    But all the crap that surfaces? Ha!

    You know, when I asked, in all stupid innocence, what a government shutdown was, and what it had to do with PP, I got some amazing answers. Some, most actually, were informative, helpful, and interesting. FB friends wrote it was in interesting discussion. And then … the next morning I noticed some missing ‘friends’ and some acid comments. It doesn’t matter what the topic is, a lot of us, me included, can’t always handle debate near to our heart. (In this case clearly it was religion because, you know, PP …)

    As for Syrians. America’s a big country. Yeah, why can’t you take boatloads of them? The UK’s chock full as it is if just about everybody. Just as well some of us clear off. Maybe refugees should be allocated on population density basis? Don’t know if you read one of my recent posts, it was a book review about Italian refugees. They actually wanted to go to America (WW2) and guess what? No way. No sponsor, no family, no chance. I’m not sure who’s in charge of US PR but it’s not been looking good for a few years now.

    PS feel free to throw crap at the UK too, we’re useless as well 🙂

    Like

    • I’d like to be able to say that the sentiments represented in this post are fringe, but sadly they are far more prevalent than my point of view. My commentary is likely to go over like a turd in a punch bowl. I fully expect to wake up tomorrow with a few less “friends.”

      I really don’t usually make any commentary. I just scroll down the newsfeed to keep up with friends and family and be social but this situation has dramatically increased the amount of political/religious extremism I’ve seen.

      My new friend’s response to your query about why we can’t take boatloads of them, and I quote, “We don’t have the jobs, we don’t have the room, there’s no need here for more people.”

      Didn’t you read the post? We have no use for them. There is no imaginable benefit.

      I did read your review of that book. We said the same thing to the Jews. But we’re a Christian nation.

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      • Oh I’m sure they’d be useful. How about some illegal scab labour? Undercutting the illegal Hispanics/Mexicans? Means your average right-on proper US person can get an even cheaper job exploiting someone else for a change.

        That’s the person who sees the cross border workers undercutting the rate, and doing no-one any favours coming out in me. Most people will do anything for a cheap price though. So, Syrians, hell yeah, if you’ll undercut José by a dollar an hour. Do they even charge a dollar an hour? I don’t know.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Yes, they do charge by the hour or by the day. This particular fellow sees the Mexican immigrants as the problem and not the Americans hiring a cheap labor force. Why, if we just sent all those Mexicans home Americans would break their necks to run out and pick peppers and tomatoes and clean toilets.

          The Syrians would also need to get themselves a really good pimp to whore them out to farmers and such.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. I’m not sure there is a clear cut solution to this Ruth. I have always tried to be sympathetic to those less fortunate. I guess my concern in recent years has been for those not willing to assimilate once they come to the USA. In particular those who want to practice sharia law here instead of abiding by the laws of our land. This is where my heart and my head sometimes part company.

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    • I don’t think there’s a clear-cut easy solution to this, either, kc. I know people have concerns and many of them are legitimate. The total lack of compassion and empahty that I’m seeing is what really bothers me. I take no issue with needing to revist our refugee program to make sure valid safety, overcrowding, etc. are addressed. There is nothing wrong with being prudent nor vigilant.

      I agree with you, though I take no issue with Musilms retaining their own practices, when those conflict with the Constitution the Constituion should rule. But let’s be clear, men owning their wives, throwing acid on them, and honor killings are extremist views. And, no, they aren’t welcome here.

      The fact is, though, that under the refugee program they would not be citizens. They would not be imbued with all the rights of citizens. Participation in anything that is unConstitutional and illegal activity subject those who commit such acts to deportation.

      This is what needs to be looked at. I’ve said for a while now that our immigration system needs to be overhauled. Those commiting any criminal acts should be deported. Those concerns can be addressed because they are mainly issues of not enforcing our own laws and poor oversight.

      Simple. Not easy.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. And I’m not saying the Syrians aren’t willing to.

    Like

  5. Eeek, you’ve just confirmed why i don’t post on FB.

    Liked by 2 people

    • And why I likely won’t do much more. I’ll be thinning the heard. Even people I like because the sheer stupidity and racism is doing my head in.

      I keep getting crap that I know hasn’t been fact-checked. There are “quotes” that confirm bias. I put quotation marks around quotes because they are, in fact, words that have never been uttered. Like this:

      “I am an Iranian by birth and of my Islamic faith. I am also an American Citizen and I seek to help change America to be a more Islamic country. My faith guides me and I feel like it is going well in the transition of using freedom of religion in America against itself.”
      ~ Valerie Jarret… Senior Advisor to Obama also know as the Puppetmaster

      First of all, who runs the White House? Second of all, just a cursory Google shows any number of sites, not just Snopes(who conservative don’t trust because they apparently have some liberal agenda), debunking the entire thing.

      Or a picture of President Obama, which he’s apparently tried to suppress because he’s carrying a book that he doesn’t want the public to know he’s reading called “The Post-American World” by “fellow Muslim” Fareed Zakaria because it shows his true desire which is the demise of America.

      http://bokertov.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451bc4a69e2013483664373970c-pi

      Again, a cursory Google tells everyone the truth in that the book, itself, has nothing to do with the destruction of America but rather the rise of the rest of the world, that Fareed Zakarai, while raised a Muslim is , himself, not religious and also, as an Indian participated in both Hindu and Christian celebrations. And that even if he were Muslim he wouldn’t be a “fellow Muslim” because Obama is a Christian. Sigh….

      Nobody cares about facts. Who has the agenda, here?

      Liked by 1 person

  6. And this is why I kissed Facebook goodbye…

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Don’t forget what the owner of Facebook said?

    Like

  8. I use FB as a tool; a place to join groups that I’m interested in, share things I’m interested in, be alerted of news articles and blogs (outside of WP, I chose to follow, and to stay in contact with like-minded friends. I’m very selective with family members as well. I agree with you and Swarn: It’s not a good place for discourse on serious issues. Neither was never intended to be.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. This is why I have been staying away from Facebook. It is infuriating, heartbreaking, oversimplified, and just downright nasty. Not all of it, but enough to be discouraging. As you say, it’s not like any minds will be changed. I gave up on religion long ago so to see it invoked to back up any ideology or “man’s inhumanity to man” reinforces my own beliefs. Or lack thereof.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oversimplified for sure. I’ve discovered that a lot of my facebook friends think they’ve got the world’s problems, or at least America’s, solved with, not three points, a poem, and a prayer, but some trite saying on a meme. Yikes!

      Like

  10. Sadly, history is simply repeating itself. A dark moment (again) in America.

    “Nearly a quarter million people, including nearly 12,000 children, have been killed in Syria since conflict broke out there four years ago, according to the London-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

    “The issue of accepting refugees has always been politicized, … The most amount of support for refugees has been when the fact of their suffering at the hands of a foreign government aligns with a narrative we have about that government being our enemy.”

    “We have a very long tradition of exaggerating the threat that refugees might pose. Just as we didn’t have a single case of a Jew working for the Nazis who was admitted into the United States, it would be very difficult for a Syrian sleeper agent for ISIS to make it through a two-year process of being vetted and being interviewed and having to explain themselves.”

    “Public opinion hasn’t shifted much. More than 60 percent of Americans polled in 1939 opposed resettling 10,000 mostly Jewish refugee children in the U.S. Just over half of Americans believe that the U.S. should accept more Syrian refugees, according to a September poll conducted by Pew.”

    http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/19/3723872/jewish-refugees/

    Liked by 2 people

    • Since WWII we, as a society, have condemned the Japanese-American internment camps and the turning away of Jewish refugees. Yet, here we are, doing it all over again and, sadly, with some siting those WWII era actions as good examples of how to handle this.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. I am pretty damned sure that you weren’t the one cluttering up my FB feed with assholery.

    I’ve kept Cary around because, while I disagree with just about all of his political and social positions, he’s articulate and at least capable of doing research. (The person who inspired that post was neither.) I’ve been tempted to reconsider on a couple of occasions, because he does like to argue and has no problem being an asshole about it. So far, the desire to avoid wrapping myself in an echo chamber of people who I mostly agree with has won out over the desire to spare myself the aggravation.

    The last couple of arguments he’s gotten into on my feed, though… I think that’s just changed. I’m hitting a point where I basically avoid arguing with him by simply not reading his comments, and if I’m doing that, well… what’s the point in keeping in contact with him? ::sigh:: So, yeah: sorry you got sucked into his crap.

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    • Yeah, I posted a comment in reply to you. When he started I should’ve just ignored it, but he replied directly to me and I’d never met the guy and didn’t want to appear a)rude and b)unable to handle criticism. And, well, you can see how frequently I comment, much less joust with people.

      I understand not wanting an echo chamber and he was very articulate about his position on the matter. Perhaps keeping him around, if for no other reason than to highlight just what a douchebag position the far-right has on this. I’d like to think that people even an inch to the left of that can see that it’s just…wrong.

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      • Eh, maybe, but I unfriended him last night. It’s just not worth the aggro.

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        • I get it. At some point you get tired of swatting gnats.

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        • And, I probably would have been better suited not to come post this here. Moreso than aggravated or angry I was in shock that someone would put it out there quite like that. Do I know there are lots of people who think like this? Sure. But say it out loud? Or better yet, write it out in a place where all the world can see it? Nah. Because they generally come up with other excused so they don’t have to feel so bad about their outright selfishness.

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  12. Well I certainly know your pain. Sometimes it’s just so unbelievable you just can’t believe someone could be so extremely narrow minded that you feel like you have to say something. Just a day after my blog post this one guy posted under a friends post about helping refugees a video of a little kid being forced by ISIS to execute two prisoners. And he was using this as a basis for not accepting prisoners because he says “There are your innocent orphans”. I was just in shock. And then I fell into the trap of saying something because I was like “This video wants me to take in more refugees if I can prevent young children from being captured and brainwashed by ISIS. And then this guy went off about how he would be taking is gun everywhere now to protect his family and accused me of not being ready to protect my family by not being as appropriately fearful. I luckily stopped before too long, because I was like this guy is just living in a great deal of fear. And while he believed my not living in fear is naïve, I ended just feeling sad for him and left it.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I was just really shocked at his brazen lack of empathy or compassion. Well, what would pass for empathy and compassion. I didn’t post the entire conversation because I didn’t want this post to be ten million words long. But in his mind, putting refugees up in camps where they are is compassion. They can build, they can grow, and they can heal there. WTF? Heal? Opening that wound every.single.morning when they open their eye? Living in an environment that is a constant reminder that they have no home? What passes for compassion for some people really is astounding.

      I kept wanting to be snide about it. Like, note to self: become religious again so I can pray that I never need help from this guy. o_O

      Liked by 1 person

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