Out From Under the Umbrella

playing in the rain

Is that Sexual Harassment?

47 Comments

classy

Stock photo I found on Pinterest.

 

 

One day this week I wore an ensemble not unlike the one pictured above.  Very similar, in fact.  Classic.  Business-like.  Appropriate office attire. Not especially provocative.

I was told by Mr. Keep-Away, “That outfit looks good on you.”  Then he proceeded to say, “It…well…I better not say what I was thinking.”

No, perhaps not.

But then he just wouldn’t let it go.

Last week I could hear him the next office over, playing keep-away with my co-worker, asking her if she was going to kiss him for “doing her a favor”(not really, he was just doing his damn job).  I cringed.

He has already remarked about the clothes I wear, “hitting all the right places.”

Later, another male co-worker, Mr. Regional Salesman, remarked on my appearance in front of another male co-worker, Mr. General Manager.  “You look good, Ruth. Oh, wait, is that sexual harassment or something?  I’m just old school.”

Then he looks at Mr. GM and says, “Is that sexual harassment?”

I think, “Probably not until you made it about sexual harassment.”  Meanwhile I’m also wondering what it means that he’s “old-school.”  Does he mean old-school as in when sexual harassment was perfectly acceptable and even expected in an office situation?

Mr. GM says, “That all depends on whether she’s offended by it or not.”

Why in my mind is there a vast difference between, “You look good,” and “You look nice?”

There’s just something in the connotation.  Are you sitting down to a porterhouse steak?

I laugh it off, “It all depends on whether you’re looking at me like you’re about to eat a pork chop or not.”

Mr. Keep-Away always looks like he’s about to eat a pork chop without his hands.

Even the Controller has made remarks both positive and negative about the attractiveness or lack thereof of the women who work here.

I was just making conversation one day and remarked that I’d like to meet a woman who works in a satellite office.  She’s a hoot, but I’ve only spoken with her on the phone.  I’ve never met her face to face.  His remark:  “You haven’t missed much.  She looks like Receptionist, only bigger, if you can imagine it.”

Me:  “Pardon?”

Controller:  “I’m just telling you what she looks like.”

No.  No, you’re not.  You’re being a sexist jackass.

Me:  “What does that have to do with me wanting to meet her?”

In a separate conversation about exercise, he commented that he goes to the gym.  I just said that I’d never exercise if I had to go somewhere to do it.  I run because I can just lace-up and go.  He made some offhand remark about me not needing to lose weight(is that the purpose of exercise?), but that he couldn’t really comment on it because he could get into trouble.

Why did it even need to go there?

The thing is, women are expected to just laugh it off.  We’re in a catch 22.  Yes, there are laws against sexual harassment, but if you file a complaint then you’re a problem.  A troublemaker.  A whiner. Suddenly your performance is scrutinized and the next thing you know you’re looking for another job.  Yet, if you don’t file a complaint you’re seen as complicit.  How can it be sexual harassment if you don’t complain?

Do you know what I have never.ever. heard?  Any of the women in this office say anything like any of this to or about the men who work here.

Is sexism systemic?  Noooo…can’t be.  There are laws against it.

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47 thoughts on “Is that Sexual Harassment?

  1. Sadly, that’s what you get when you allow men to enter the workforce and public domains. Big mistake.

    It should be apparent already — my goodness, will we ever learn? — that men are too emotional and driven by their hormones and whatnot to perform any tasks of responsibility, especially in the public sphere.

    It would be right and merciful, and certainly most useful for society, to keep’em at home, where they belong by virtue of their uncontrollable nature.

    Liked by 4 people

  2. I am laughing at Emma’s response, all the while realizing that there are men who wouldn’t get the joke. I think we could all pick ’em out in the blogosphere, too.

    Here’s another story, from a FB friend who put it on her site today.

    “In 1996 when flying out of Atlanta for business, I crossed paths with Newt Gingrich. I loathe this man. He was dressed in a suit and moving towards me with who I guess was his staff, and I was in a business suit rushing past him to catch my flight. As soon as I noticed him, he was already looking at me, and he proceeded to wink at me and look me up and down. Had my carry on been just five pounds lighter, I would have taken a swing at him and proudly served time for it. This man is almost as arrogant and narcissistic as Trump, so of course he defends Trump’s sexual behavior. He has no respect for women and sees nothing wrong with using women for his pleasure.”

    I don’t know how many people read Jerry Coyne’s blog the other day about the same topic but it was quite overwhelming for him (I got the impression) to learn just how common sexual assault is for women. I also said to my husband, “It’s surprising that he got to be the age he is without realizing this!”

    Important post, Ruth.

    Liked by 8 people

    • “…This man is almost as arrogant and narcissistic as Trump, so of course he defends Trump’s sexual behavior. He has no respect for women and sees nothing wrong with using women for his pleasure.”

      That is what we women are here for, right? To be ized(or eyed)?

      I did read Jerry Coyne’s blog. I was a little surprised by his lack of awareness, myself. But if it isn’t your daily reality maybe you just don’t notice it?

      Liked by 1 person

      • I liked that there was only one ‘what about the menz?’ commenter on there and he was dealt with immediately. Jerry rarely comments on his blog posts, but was the first to give a rejoinder to the one male who started making that sort of point. I liked that he learned something – the shoe’s usually on the other foot. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

        • Well, exactly. The point isn’t that it never happens to teh menz. And the point also isn’t for women to start behaving like sexual predators to ‘even things up’. Of course it’s bad whether it happens to a man or a woman, it happens to far more women than men, far more times in a woman’s life. It’s daily.

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  3. Remember we had the convo about clothes ages ago and I never posted on Clouds? Although it is started in draft. This sounds like the same thing. To what extent are women judged by the clothes we wear? How attractive and sexual do they make us? Not good. At all.

    Liked by 3 people

    • I do remember. I’m still waiting… 😀

      Are you saying that the clothing I wore isn’t good at.all.?

      I guess I’m caught between two competing dynamics here. To what extent should I have to go out of my way to wear ugly clothes so that I’m not objectified? Am I supposed to wear a potato sack? I spent most of my life caught up in a very overt patriarchy, in a religion where the man was the head of the house, and women were to dress modestly(not that I would call the outfit above immodest). Most of my clothes were chosen by my husband and most of them had me covered from my neck to my feet. I wore big, clunky shoes, long skirts or pants, baggy t’s and turtlenecks. Now that I have the freedom to choose the clothes that I wear, I choose clothes that I like, not based on how sexy they are, but whether or not I like them.

      I’m not arguing with your premise, it’s just that I’ve already lived that. I’ve already been told by my religion what I shouldn’t wear so as not to tempt a man.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Ruth, I cringed when you wrote that comment. The very idea of your husband choosing your clothes just makes me want to kick the guy in the arse with a frozen boot. You know this, because I’ve told you before.

        I’m glad you get to be you, every day. Shake that booty! 🙂

        Liked by 3 people

  4. “Last week I could hear him the next office over, playing keep-away with my co-worker, asking her if she was going to kiss him for “doing her a favor”(not really, he was just doing his damn job). I cringed.”

    He’s a cringe master.

    Sounds like a creep.

    “Mr. GM says, “That all depends on whether she’s offended by it or not.”

    No. It depends on whether you’re sexually harassing her or not, you buffoon.

    “The thing is, women are expected to just laugh it off. We’re in a catch 22. Yes, there are laws against sexual harassment, but if you file a complaint then you’re a problem. A troublemaker. A whiner.”

    It’s a catch 22 whether you’re male or female. Males reporting it are laughed at as well sometimes.

    Personally, I’d start by telling the person responsible for the comments that I don’t appreciate them and would like it if they stopped making them.

    If that didn’t work, I would take it a level upwards.

    “How can it be sexual harassment if you don’t complain?”

    It’s still sexual harassment. If I get raped and don’t tell the authorities, that doesn’t mean I wasn’t raped. The rape doesn’t magically disappear.

    “Do you know what I have never.ever. heard? Any of the women in this office say anything like any of this to or about the men who work here.”

    And yet it happens.

    “Is sexism systemic? Noooo…can’t be. There are laws against it.”

    Sexual harassment is a problem. The way it’s often handled is questionable.

    However, if someone says I look good that day, I don’t think that’s sexual harassment. If they’re going over the line into harassment, then I would report them after telling them it wasn’t acceptable behavior.

    Liked by 4 people

    • “He’s a cringe master.

      Sounds like a creep.

      He is.

      Yes.

      “No. It depends on whether you’re sexually harassing her or not, you buffoon.”

      In Mr. GM’s defense, I think he was quite uncomfortable and attempting, however poorly, to make a joke and move on. No sooner had he said it than he was deflecting to another subject matter altogether.

      “It’s a catch 22 whether you’re male or female. Males reporting it are laughed at as well sometimes.

      Personally, I’d start by telling the person responsible for the comments that I don’t appreciate them and would like it if they stopped making them.

      If that didn’t work, I would take it a level upwards.”

      I didn’t say I was worried about being laughed at. I could care less about that.

      This is the catch 22:

      “Yes, there are laws against sexual harassment, but if you file a complaint then you’re a problem. A troublemaker. A whiner. Suddenly your performance is scrutinized and the next thing you know you’re looking for another job. Yet, if you don’t file a complaint you’re seen as complicit. How can it be sexual harassment if you don’t complain?”

      I wasn’t even remotely implying that it isn’t sexual harassment if you don’t complain. But since you used the rape analogy let’s stick with it. When you file a sexual harassment complaint you open yourself up to all kinds of scrutiny. “Did you do anything to solicit the behavior? What were you wearing? Did you lead the alleged harasser on?” Not only that, even if you were truly sexually harassed, once you file a complaint you’re seen as a pariah. You are seen as a problem, a lawsuit waiting to happen, a whiner, a complainer. So your work performance suddenly comes under more intense scrutiny and, bam, you no longer have a job. If you don’t complain and try to handle it yourself then the question becomes, “Why didn’t you file a complaint sooner? Was it really harassment? Or did you decide you no longer wanted to attention of that particular person?”

      So you have to really decide whether or not it’s even worth it to file a complaint to have your every move questioned. It isn’t that I don’t believe that there should be fair and impartial investigations. It’s that victims of this nature are already ashamed. They’re already asking themselves those questions. They’re already blaming themselves. So they have to weigh whether or not it’s worth feeling re-victimized to decide whether or not it’s worth pursuing.

      “And yet it happens.”

      Where did I say that it never happens? This is where you and I are going to be at cross purposes, I think. Are you saying it happens just as much to men? Or are you saying that if there’s even one case of it happening that this is proof that women are just as capable as men of such behavior? It happens on a much greater scale to women, proportionally, than it does to men. Of course, it’s just as bad when it happens to a man, but by and large it is men who do this kind of thing.

      I am a woman, I have female friends, and I know a lot of women. I know of, perhaps, one who might do something like this. I’ve told her before that I don’t think it’s funny and that it’s just as disgusting for a woman to do it as it is for a man to do it. But we, as women, do not, I repeat, DO NOT, do this kind of thing on a large scale, especially in a group, and then stand around and slap each other on the back about it.

      “Sexual harassment is a problem. The way it’s often handled is questionable.”

      Ya reckon?

      “However, if someone says I look good that day, I don’t think that’s sexual harassment. If they’re going over the line into harassment, then I would report them after telling them it wasn’t acceptable behavior.”

      Had he just said, “You look good,” I would have said, “Thank you,” and gone about my business and thought nothing more of it. He brought sexual harassment into the conversation and I used his words to title my post. I don’t think that it rises to the level of sexual harassment. I do wonder, though, why he brought it up. Is it because he really doesn’t understand what sexual harassment is? Or is it because he was making light of a very serious problem at a woman’s expense?

      Liked by 1 person

      • “Not only that, even if you were truly sexually harassed, once you file a complaint you’re seen as a pariah. You are seen as a problem, a lawsuit waiting to happen, a whiner, a complainer. So your work performance suddenly comes under more intense scrutiny and, bam, you no longer have a job.”

        Do you work for monsters?

        Where I live it’s taken quite seriously.

        “Where did I say that it never happens?”

        You didn’t. You said it never happened at your workplace that you know of. I simply stated it does happen despite your anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

        “Are you saying it happens just as much to men?”

        No. I’m aware of the statistics. Something like 40% of women and 10% of men report being sexually harassed. Also about 5% of the time it’s women sexually harassing other women.

        ” Or are you saying that if there’s even one case of it happening that this is proof that women are just as capable as men of such behavior?”

        No. That would mean they’re capable of it. Yes, I think some women are just as capable as some men of doing it.

        ” I’ve told her before that I don’t think it’s funny and that it’s just as disgusting for a woman to do it as it is for a man to do it.”

        That’s good. I agree.

        “But we, as women, do not, I repeat, DO NOT, do this kind of thing on a large scale, ”

        10 out of every 100 is a fairly large number. Not as big as the reverse obviously, but to pretend it’s an aberration is not true either.

        “especially in a group, and then stand around and slap each other on the back about it.”

        Guys I know don’t stand around and back-slap over a woman being sexually harassed either.

        And women do do it. They often do it out of the earshot of the person they’re talking about. I hear it all the time at work, where they stand around and talk about men they see at work. When my company was about to hire the second male in our region, my female co-workers said that they hoped he was at least hot.

        “Ya reckon?”

        Yes.

        ” I do wonder, though, why he brought it up. Is it because he really doesn’t understand what sexual harassment is? Or is it because he was making light of a very serious problem at a woman’s expense?”

        I don’t know him well enough to say. If I had to guess, I’m betting that he was worried he’d be reported for sexual harassment and that was his way of checking to make sure he wasn’t going to be.

        Liked by 1 person

        • “Do you work for monsters? “

          No, I work for a private sector small business of less than 100 employees whose employee handbook was last updated circa 1970-something. There aren’t very many hard and fast rules around here. As a result any complaints of any kind are often handled in a fairly reactionary manner rather than proactively.

          “Where I live it’s taken quite seriously.”

          Where you live or where you work? Here in the States working for a state or federal government agency is far different than working for a private sector employer, especially small employers such as mine who comprise the bulk of employers in the nation.

          “I’m aware of the statistics. Something like 40% of women and 10% of men report being sexually harassed. Also about 5% of the time it’s women sexually harassing other women. “

          Report it to whom? Perhaps Canada keeps better statistics on this than the U.S. does. The only place I could find actual statistics was the EEOC(Equal Employment Opportunity Commission). The only thing that is reported is the number of charges made per year and the percentage of those charges that are female claimants and male claimants. Employers with fewer than 100 employees are not required to report statistics to the EEOC. It makes even their data suspect.

          The latest data they did have from 2011 shows that 11,364 claims were filed with their office(not the number reported by employers of 100 or more employees). The process is rather cumbersome. If you don’t get a resolution from your employer then you can file a charge with the EEOC. So this number absolutely does not represent the true number of complaints filed with employers at large. Most people, regardless of the resolution with their employer aren’t going to that trouble unless they’re looking for a payday.

          In any case, of those 11,364 16.3% of the charges filed were by men. It does not report what percentage of that number were male on male cases, nor does it report that same data for the 83.7% of those cases reported by women.

          Regardless I found a couple of articles about the rise of men reporting sexual harassment in the workplace. This one, from Monster.com

          “Although the statistics don’t reveal whether the alleged harassers of men also are male, they typically are — it’s rare for a man to file charges against a female coworker or supervisor, says EEOC spokesman David Grinberg”

          So to your point that:

          “10 out of every 100 is a fairly large number. Not as big as the reverse obviously, but to pretend it’s an aberration is not true either.”

          It would be helpful to know how many of those 10 out of every 100 were male on male cases.

          This Newsweek article also discusses the incidence of male on male sexual harassment.

          They often do it out of the earshot of the person they’re talking about. I hear it all the time at work, where they stand around and talk about men they see at work. When my company was about to hire the second male in our region, my female co-workers said that they hoped he was at least hot.”

          No offense, but the women you work with sound like real class acts.

          I have worked in both female-dominated and male-dominated environments. At no time did I ever participate in nor hear any of the women I worked with talk this way. Indeed, that is only anecdotal evidence, but I’ve heard men say despicable things both within earshot and out of earshot of both males and females.

          That is not me saying that it doesn’t happen anywhere ever. It is anecdotal evidence that it doesn’t happen on the scale with women that it does with men. And this is both with women who are in positions of authority and those who are not.

          “I don’t know him well enough to say. If I had to guess, I’m betting that he was worried he’d be reported for sexual harassment and that was his way of checking to make sure he wasn’t going to be.”

          But what he did didn’t constitute sexual harassment. I understand some men are worried they’ll be falsely accused of sexual harassment, but in order to be falsely accused whatever the accusation is would have to rise to the level of actual sexual harassment. In which case I’d have had to make up some stuff.

          Liked by 1 person

        • In addition to the articles I linked to above here is the Wiki article on sexual harassment.

          Here’s an excerpt from the article pertaining to filing complaints:

          “Post-complaint retaliation and backlash[edit]

          Retaliation and backlash against a victim are very common, particularly a complainant. Victims who speak out against sexual harassment are often labeled troublemakers who are on their own “power trips”, or who are looking for attention. Similar to cases of rape or sexual assault, the victim often becomes the accused, with their appearance, private life, and character likely to fall under intrusive scrutiny and attack.[39] They risk hostility and isolation from colleagues, supervisors, teachers, fellow students, and even friends. They may become the targets of mobbing or relational aggression.[34]

          Women are not necessarily sympathetic to female complainants who have been sexually harassed. If the harasser was male, internalized sexism (and/or jealousy over the sexual attention towards the victim) may encourage some women to react with as much hostility towards the complainant as some male colleagues.[40] Fear of being targeted for harassment or retaliation themselves may also cause some women to respond with hostility.[41] For example, when Lois Jenson filed her lawsuit against Eveleth Taconite Co., the women shunned her both at work and in the community—many of these women later joined her suit.[42] Women may even project hostility onto the victim in order to bond with their male coworkers and build trust.[41]

          Retaliation has occurred when a sexual harassment victim suffers a negative action as a result of the harassment. For example, a complainant be given poor evaluations or low grades, have their projects sabotaged, be denied work or academic opportunities, have their work hours cut back, and other actions against them which undermine their productivity, or their ability to advance at work or school, being fired after reporting sexual harassment or leading to unemployment as they may be suspended, asked to resign, or be fired from their jobs altogether. Retaliation can even involve further sexual harassment, and also stalking and cyberstalking of the victim.[40][41] Moreover, a school professor or employer accused of sexual harassment, or who is the colleague of a perpetrator, can use their power to see that a victim is never hired again, or never accepted to another school.

          Of the women who have approached her to share their own experiences of being sexually harassed by their teachers, feminist and writer Naomi Wolf wrote in 2004:

          I am ashamed of what I tell them: that they should indeed worry about making an accusation because what they fear is likely to come true. Not one of the women I have heard from had an outcome that was not worse for her than silence. One, I recall, was drummed out of the school by peer pressure. Many faced bureaucratic stonewalling. Some women said they lost their academic status as golden girls overnight; grants dried up, letters of recommendation were no longer forthcoming. No one was met with a coherent process that was not weighted against them. Usually, the key decision-makers in the college or university—especially if it was a private university—joined forces to, in effect, collude with the faculty member accused; to protect not him necessarily but the reputation of the university, and to keep information from surfacing in a way that could protect other women. The goal seemed to be not to provide a balanced forum, but damage control.[43]

          Another woman who was interviewed by sociologist Helen Watson said, “Facing up to the crime and having to deal with it in public is probably worse than suffering in silence. I found it to be a lot worse than the harassment itself.”

          Also, at least in the U.S., to the extent that we have sexual harassment laws on the books for both females and males we can all thank a feminist.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. When the guy said, “It…well…I better not say what I was thinking.” — I think I would have responded, with a tinge of disgust in my voice, “No, it’s probably best that you don’t” or something similar. Maybe these guys need to be “cut off at the pass.”

    From your post, you seem to be expressing your inner thoughts as these events take place, but you’re not indicating what you’re actually doing about them. Am I missing something?

    Liked by 4 people

    • I’ve written about Mr. Keep-Away before. About a year ago he was doing these same types of things. I was polite enough then and when I would become uncomfortable around him I would always…always bring up my husband. Female co-worker noticed it and we reported it to his immediate supervisor. Supervisor took him to lunch and talked to him about it. It stopped for a while.

      Lately, he’s been doing it again, only it seems more frequent and more intense. The thing is, he’s not quite sexually harassing but he’s tip-toeing up to the line.

      In the office we used to operate out of I had to walk past him to go to the bathroom. We’ve moved and that’s no longer the case. He’s in an office with three other men in the very back of the building. Now in order to creep he has to intentionally seek me out. He comes to my office door or hangs over my desk on the opposite side. It’s not something done in passing, in other words. It’s very deliberate. He also does this to female co-worker.

      At any rate, I’m no longer even polite about it. I do not reciprocate in any way nor do I indicate that I even appreciate or enjoy these comments. As he’s hanging in my door or the other side of my desk I’m stone-faced staring straight at my computer, basically ignoring him. If I do say anything at all it’s with every bit of disgust I can muster. He seems to like that. It’s weird.

      Female co-worker and I have discussed how to proceed. Neither one of us really want to get him into trouble, nor do we want to hurt his feelings or cause tension. But as I said to her, there’s already tension. How uncomfortable should we allow ourselves to be in order not to cause him the slightest discomfort. I told her after the latest episode that the next time I was prepared to tell him in no uncertain terms that his behavior was inappropriate in an office setting and that he was making me uncomfortable.

      If it doesn’t stop after that I’m fully prepared to report it up the chain, above his immediate supervisor, and let the chips fall where they may.

      Liked by 1 person

      • sounds like what I wrote about yesterday–weird when they stop then come out of the blue again. I mean, that’s the trouble I’ve had the past year. When does it cross the line between annoyance/discomfort and harassment? I mean, when I’d be angry he’d back off and then for a while there’d be nothing I’d think of as actionable, and if I tried to report anything or tell anybody about it, there was nothing to point to because he wasn’t being a problem…except for always being around. It sucks because every case is a bit different, and what do you do if you’re socially naive and all?…sucks. Hugs to all out there and let’s keep our minds on a swivel.

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  6. I’ve owned my own businesses the past 20 years. I’ve employed lots of women. To my knowledge not one of them was ever offended by compliments I paid to them. But, I was very careful how I did it. And I complimented them regardless of their physical beauty. That I think was the difference. I didn’t just compliment “The Ruths ” 🙂 . I complimented the matronly Grandmas as well. I would like to think it made them feel better about themselves. Maybe that could be the harassment meter. If what a man says about the woman makes her feel better about herself, it’s not harassment ? Just a thought

    Liked by 4 people

    • Well, kc, I am in the ‘matronly grandmother’ category and I can tell you that your kind of compliment would be well-received. 🙂
      I really believe that most women can recognize the difference – it’s INTENT that matters.

      Liked by 4 people

    • You don’t strike me as a creeper. 😀

      I fear I might have left the impression that I think I’m hot snot on a silver platter. The truth is I work in a male-dominated industry. There are 13 people who work in this office and another 15 who are headquartered out of this office who work in the field but are in and out daily. Out of those 28 four are women. One of those women is the co-owner. The other two women are a good bit older than myself. So it isn’t likely due to the fact that I’m just so awesome, but rather, an age/ratio thing.

      The co-owners, a brother and sister combo who inherited the business from their father, do not dole out compliments with words. They acknowledge hard work and dedication with incentives and more challenging assignments as a sign of their trust in our capabilities. In a working environment, or any environment really, I had a million times over rather my work ethic, my accomplishments and my abilities be complimented rather than my appearance.

      I will acknowledge that because of certain things in my past I am likely sensitive to commentary on my physical appearance. Delivery of said commentary is extremely important. Intent with any compliment is important as well, BUT that leaves judgment of the intent up to the recipient, who can misinterpret said intent. Having said that, compliments on physical appearance do not constitute sexual harassment in and of themselves. There’s far more involved in it than that.

      I like that you want to make all of your employees feel good about themselves, though. 😀

      Liked by 1 person

    • I think the correct response here, Ken is, were you complimentary of the men in a similar manner?

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Thank you Carmen for those kind words. Your check will be in the mail today ! 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Try to imagine my dismay, having just read this on a friend’s FB site. She’s speaking of physical assault, but I think you can ‘hear’ her anguish. Does it sound familiar?? Goddamn it all to hell.

    “Warning: rant follows…
    ‘It’s not OK’ the campaign says but really, it is….
    In New Zealand there is justice and there is the law. Once again a male assaults a female, (I am this particular female) and the offender was (yesterday) discharged without conviction in the Wellington District Court. He entered a guilty plea some months ago and the process has taken this long to reach an outcome.
    While I am not surprised at the conclusion, I am gutted that so much consideration is given to the abuser. Is it any wonder so many victims do not pursue laying charges against perpetrators?
    Vincent Howard MORDER, DOB: 13/09/1970 from Khandallah, Wellington…. I name you and shame you.
    I say again, as I have before…. I may be bent but I ain’t broken!!!! My justice is living in this world surrounded by love and light of the beautiful people who cross my path… I have no doubt this will not be the case for you.
    Now… On with a fabulous rest of my life.
    Love, light and blessings for you all xxx

    Liked by 1 person

  9. This woman is the same age as me and I saw the pictures of her injuries when we got together this past summer. I am upset and just sick over this. We cross-posted and I see you mentioned the very topics (to GC) my friend addressed in her post, all boiling down to the damage ‘no respect for women’ does in our society. But there’s no patriarchy!

    Liked by 2 people

  10. I’d like to add a few real life examples, one involving a man being ‘harassed’ or to me, sexually assaulted.

    1) A young woman, (good) secretary, age early 20s, works for manager M, age late 40s? M is bringing a visitor past H’s desk in the open plan office and mentions in passing, ‘She likes it rough you know’.
    H is not well pleased by this and reports it to M’s manager, F, age 50s, who doesn’t want a bar of it and pushes it to the director, G.
    G, is younger, late 30s. G calls M into his office and gives him a warning for his comment.
    I heard the story from F who seemed to think the fact that H ‘may’ have liked rough sex justified the comment.
    Really? Our sex life should be the topic of conversation in the office? I mentioned the ages as I wondered if it had a bearing on viewpoints.

    2) A young woman is walking across a park, say around 9am. She feels a dog snuffling her from behind. She turns round to look at the dog and a man suddenly runs away from her. No dog in sight. Just a man who groped her arse. She kept walking to her destination.
    Then she felt three things: shock at the assault, gratitude that it wasn’t worse, fear of what could have happened. There was no one around who could have helped. She was wearing pullover, jeans, trainers. Her fault for walking in a park?

    3) A man is standing in a busy bar. A woman walks past and gropes his arse.
    ‘Mmm nice’ she says.
    ‘Get your hands off me. Now!’ he says. She did.
    He was wearing sweatshirt, jeans, trainers. He had a lot of people around him. He was a martial artist. He felt indignation, annoyance, invasion of his personal space. But no fear.

    And that is the difference.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Yes, that IS the difference, roughseas. I was wondering yesterday if there are comparable examples to the following examples; that is – how many well-known cases of men being victims can anyone reference, under similar circumstances?

      1) the Rehtaeh Parsons case in Nova Scotia. A high-profile case that involved a young girl drinking at a party and assaulted by three young men. I won’t go into details, as it is particular disturbing. Said young men took pictures and they circulated on social media. Rahtaeh committed suicide at 17 years of age.

      2) the reports of women having to move on airplanes, because of men whose religion doesn’t permit them proximity. Note: the WOMEN must move.

      3) Here in Canada, we hear many reports of women being found dead. How is it that the first thing in most people’s minds is, “Another woman killed by her partner”? Needless to say, most people do not have the same reaction when hearing of men being found dead.

      And on an on it goes. . disrespect for women is rampant. It rears its ugly head in all sorts of commentary. 😦

      Liked by 2 people

      • 1) The RP case sounds like Lucia Peréz in Argentina (details/link on Clouds), she died after being drugged, gang raped and seperately penetrated. They kindly dropped her off at a drug rehab clinic. She was a schoolgirl FFS. Although, I don’t think age makes a difference. Just as horrible for older women as you pointed out.

        2) Oh yes. The poor Jewish menz can’t sit next to unclean women.

        3) I was looking at a report/study today and the US/UK have far more assaults/rapes known by the woman than Canada does.

        Whether or not they are known is irrelevant. It. Should. Not. Be. Happening.

        The internet is truly vicious against women. Speak out? Get criticised, abused and insulted. Shut up women. Listen to teh menz, cos they know best.

        Liked by 1 person

        • That’s the part that I get, loud and clear, roughseas. “Feminists have done their work and should now stfu”. Or, “There are plenty of women ( the same women who have benefitted from feminists’ efforts, mind you )- who say that feminists don’t speak for them”. wtf??

          Liked by 2 people

          • Yeah. And 170 years before the gender pay gap equalises. Well, maybe. No doubt in 170 years it will have gone up again. That is two lifetimes – minimum – more than us. No need for feminism?

            I am not entirely sure why all women should have exactly the same view of feminism. Does anyone criticise political parties for differing views? But no, women who don’t all sing the same song invalidates feminism. I. Think. Not.

            Liked by 1 person

  11. Most all of those comments by the man/men to you or any woman in the workplace is 95% – 100% sexual innuendos and/or harassment and grounds for professional reprimands and/or occupational probation or termination and/or legal actions. Period.

    And to cover ALL the bases in this day and age, take away genders and sexual orientations, and the above STILL applies.

    Liked by 2 people

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